Episode #74: Selling With Service with Liz Dederer
The Fast-Track Woman Podcast: Episode #74
Selling With Service with Liz Dederer
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Meet Podcast Guest, Liz Dederer.
A 5-time entrepreneur for over 20 years, Liz Dederer is no stranger to sales.
Through her training programs, she has helped clients increase close rates from 0% to 80% in 30 days, end the year 50% over plan and increase sales from under $300 thousand to $1.2 million in under 6 months!
An accomplished speaker, Liz has been on a national speaking tour empowering thousands of women in business across the country on the topics of sales and money.
Always one to give back, she has lent her expertise to NAWBO, eWomenNetwork, the Women's Mentoring Network, SCORE, the Women’s Business Development Council, and regular contributes through training and other volunteer ship to various non-profits.
Liz has been featured on the International Women and Money Summit, is the producer of "Excuse Me, Ma'am, Your Wage Gap is Showing," and creator of The Currency of Conversations, a ground-breaking approach so you can Speak Your Value and Own Your Worth!
About this Podcast Episode.
In this episode, Terra Bohlmann interviews Liz Dederer, sales expert for entrepreneurs. Liz shares her strategies on how to sell with a service-based mindset. You'll also learn what the average salary an entrepreneur pays herself. Friends for years, Terra and Liz open up with the authentic truth about business and sales. If you find yourself wanting to grow your sales in a way that feels in alignment with yourself, you'll love this episode!
Resources, Tools, and Links Mentioned in this Episode.
Read and Download the Transcript for this Episode.
Speaker 1 (00:01): When you give smart women a five-year plan, simple business strategies and a positive mindset. It's amazing how fast your business can grow. Welcome to the fast track woman podcast with your host and business strategist, terrible woman. She helps women business owners stop winging it and board the fast track to success. When she's not making high flying dreams, the reality you can find her traveling to random destinations, desperately tracking down Chanel, broaches, or sipping overpriced coffee drinks. Her purpose in life is to help you build a profitable first-class business, smooth out the bumpy ride, and finally have more time, energy and freedom. So buckle your seatbelt because this episode of the fast track woman takes off right now.
Speaker 2 (00:53): So welcome back to the fast track woman podcast. I'm your host, Tara Boldman. And today I have an amazing guest for us. So I'm going to be interviewing and chatting with Liz debtor, who is like amazing at sales. And we became fast friends for years. So I'm sure we'll dig into a lot of that kind of stuff too. But Liz is a sales genius, and she also teaches fellow women business owners all about sales too. So let me read her formal bio. So you really understand what a rock star she is. So a five time entrepreneur for over 20 years, Liz debtor is no stranger to sales through her training program. She has helped clients increase close rates from 0% to 80% in just 30 days and end of year, 50% over plan and increase sales from under 300,000 to 1.2 million. And just under six months as an accomplished speaker, Liz has been on a national speaking tour, empowering thousands of women in business across the country on the topics of sales and money always wanted to give back.
Speaker 2 (02:03): She has lent her expertise to Nabo E women network. The women's mentoring network score, the women's business development council and regular Lee contributes through training and other volunteer ships to various nonprofits. Liz has been featured on the international women and money summit is the producer of, excuse me, ma'am your wage gap is showing and the creator of the currency of conversation, a groundbreaking approach. So you can speak your value and own your worth. We have tons of comments. I'm super excited to dig into an area that I feel like a lot of women business owners struggling, or there's a lot of fear around is sales. So welcome Liz to the fast track woman. How are you
Speaker 3 (02:48): So happy? So happy. And it's funny when you were going through the bio and the nationals. Yeah. That's when we
Speaker 2 (02:54): Got to hang out and play. That's what I say. Totally. Yes. We actually met and through a organization called E women network. And because Liz was in Connecticut at the time, I don't think you're in Connecticut anymore. Right. But we I'm in Houston and we got connected and we just became quick friends and we've even hung out in New York city and like all kinds of fun stuff. So, and I believe you spoke in Houston for you women network and all that kind of stuff. So whenever I used to leave that chapter, everyone would just like, all the speakers would just stay at my house and like blend in with my family. So I remember having some awesome conversations over champagne in my living room. So fun. All right. So let's just dive in. Cause I know we, we have so much to cover and sales is one of these areas that w w we know a lot of women business owners struggle with. And based on your experience, you know, you kind of have this no BS approach, especially when it comes to sales, but based on your experience in working with tons of women as well, like, why do you think the struggle around sales is so real for them?
Speaker 3 (04:03): Yeah, so it's fascinating to me because the sales kind of, if you look at sales as like an industry versus like a job, right. Sales have, it was created by men, for men, all the training out there is masculine, and that's kind of been the M O that people operate by. So there hasn't really been, you know, and then, and then conversely, any of the women sales trainings, like, and, and I know this is somebody's brand, and I don't mean anything by it, but like selling in a skirt and, you know, it gets to fluffy flighty kind of a thing. And that doesn't resonate with BASF is like us. So it's hard when you have a strong, alpha, confident woman who wants to last forward in business, she's not going to go to like, flowery, like, how do I sell like a girl? Right? So then she goes, instead of these masculine trainings, like they're successful, they're making money. What are they doing? But it's the wrong energy. It's masculine energy because they don't understand what a true feminine energy is, which is meeting in the middle, which is we don't have to be feminine and dainty. We don't have to pound on our chest and be like, look at what I got.
Speaker 2 (05:11): Right. Right. So
Speaker 3 (05:13): It's a misconception of understanding what sales actually is because men are hunters that works for them. Right. As women we're nurturers, right. We, we Y chase when we're the catch.
Speaker 2 (05:29): Exactly. Right. It's, it's
Speaker 3 (05:31): Flipping the energy around that. We're not going to go out pounding on our chest, beating on doors, knocking people down, following up, following up, following up, that's, that's hunting, chase energy that men do, which works for them. We're relationship builders. However, when you're in, especially like a male dominated industry. So I know we're obviously talking about women in business, but we've all come from some sort of corporate world. So I've seen this in it. And it just really grinds my gears. There's a successful woman in sales or a confident, you know, new sales woman in a sales industry sales role. Right. And she's good. And statistically women close 11% more sales than men. So that's just like actual and factual. So you have a woman out there who's doing sales and it's good. And she's great. And she, then she gets to like the end of the sales conversation cycle with a big client. And then the sales manager comes along. Always a dude
Speaker 2 (06:31): He's been, you're explaining my former corporate life, but closer. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:36): He comes into close, but she's been building the relationship. So he's going to have it. It just, it's a total energetic mismatch. Yeah. He's she didn't do it his way. So therefore it's wrong. And that's why blabbity, blah. And then we go down the mansplaining trail. So of course, when women think about sales, all of that known or experienced comes up and I'm like, I don't, we don't want to sell. We just want to like serve people. We just want to like help.
Speaker 2 (07:04): Right. Well, I love what you had said around, you know, the closing side is as women, we may have been taught, we've been PIM be put through some sort of sales training or this or that, but never closing training. Right. And we want to like, over-talk the clothes instead of just asking for the sale and shutting up. Right. That was something I had to learn. And it's, you know, cause I'm like you know, I do the consultations and this will become a therapy session for you, Liz. So it's like, I can have the conversations. And then when it gets to the end, like I just asked the trigger question. So what question do you have any questions for me? And that's when they're like, usually yeah. How much is it to work with you? Or then, you know, I open up that invitation. And then I always, my comfort level is, you know, thanks for asking and you know, this is what it's like, but let me send you some information to process and you know, and you can take a few days and think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:58): Well, a couple of my friends that I'm in a mastermind with are like, no more Tara, like, stop, like just get the card. And I think you I've probably had like, conversations with that. Or like if they're a yes, just get them enrolled right there. Instead of having to spend time on the follow-up and love it though. And I'm like, well, I'm a processor. So I personally like to process and I don't want to, and then, you know, all this stuff comes up because I was never taught to close. I was taught to sale and sell and consulting, but the clothes are always came in. And so that was something I hadn't thought of until you had said it. And it's like, wow, because the thing I've learned in working with women for over 10 years, and I can't even believe it's been that long, it is, you know, we never know all the personal development, crap and issues. We have the internal things until we decided to start our own business. And then here we go on this personal development journey. Am I good enough? What if they don't like me? You know I can't ask for that. Or if I make too much money, well, people think then, you know, all that internal conversations and dialogue that come in, which stops us from serving more. So yeah, like what, what's your take on that?
Speaker 3 (09:09): Nailing it, nailing it, the number one mistake that we all make in sales conversations is that we make financial decisions for other people, the positioning and experience. So a hundred percent what you said that you're a processor. So you, you in a very safe, reasonable, rational assumption is that other people are too, however, this is why it's so important to like do the client avatar work and not just like a woman 35 to 55, like right into her psyche, because you're going to have the same client kind of coming through. So you're going to already know how she thinks and how she operates. My students coming into my sales school for entrepreneurs. They, they are more processors. They do need to read things and thinks things through. I am a gut decision, kind of a person like, is it yes or no? Like it's, if it's that's, that's just me, but that's not how my people operate.
Speaker 3 (09:59): So I already anticipate what's going to go on in these conversations. The other thing is, again, with the sales energy, how just insidious it is creeping into all levels of our psyche. When you are in that conversation with someone, I know you you're helping them throughout the conversation. Like you don't have any ounce of sales, energy. You're like, what's going on here? What's what, what are, what do we need to do to like get you on? But then you get into that money part of the conversation. This is where we all just get weird about it. Cause we're like that, but just some sort of way, right? We all do. This is where a shift in perspective. Oh, miracle is really required. If we look at it, like the money is coming to us, then yeah. We're going to get weird about it because it feels selfish. And we've been in this energy this whole time and all of a sudden energetically somewhere in our psyche, mentally, we're doing a bait and switch. Mm.
Speaker 2 (10:53): That all of a sudden it's now. Yeah. Like it's, we're selfish if we ask for that.
Speaker 3 (10:58): Exactly. So I gotta, I gotta flip it on you because I'm an my Facebook group is called entrepreneurs who over-deliver. I mean, I just a bit of a giver. So all of these things that I'm saying, I've, I've created and identified to protect myself from myself. So I have zero sales, energy operating. Like I'm not the sales person at all. I built sales systems to protect myself from myself, from giving it all away was the hardest working broke entrepreneur for the longest time. So I can say this from, from that place, but where the money comes in and where you can, you can flip the script in your own head is to look at it. Instead of they're giving you money, they are committing to the transformation. And when you don't ask for it, you're denying them the opportunity to energetically and otherwise commit to the transformation that they are so desperately ready for.
Speaker 2 (11:53): Yeah. That's really, really, really good. And the thing that I had to work on myself was when you don't ask and well, the money is simply a transfer of energy, right? Like it's money. We just like make up what it has in our head. I've done so much money mindset work. And you know, as a lot of us have, right. And it's like, you need, you have to get to the root of why. And if something is stalling in your business and you're not making the money, one that's usually has to do with something and how you perceive money. Right. So you know, money was not necessarily ever an issue in my life growing up. Like we never had, well, we always had enough, but never like a surplus, you know? And back when I was growing up, there was this, the credit cards and the credit lines and all that kind of stuff just was like a fairly new thing.
Speaker 2 (12:43): So I remember this little magazine or, yeah, it was back then it was a magazine it's called Fingerhut. And you can have you remember Fingerhut buy things for like a dollar a month, a dollar a week. And so it was like all of a sudden, I think, you know, I mean, my mom always had like the Fingerhut catalogs and we'd be like, do you need a new bread's bedspread? Because I can just pay $3 a week for 18 years and it can be yours, you know? And you know, so it was like, I was just being introduced to cut it and, you know, and that was kind of the generation and whatnot. And yeah, and it was just like, you know, there was never a surplus, but always enough. And I feel like even with women, when I've been working with them, most women do not pay themselves a consistent salary.
Speaker 2 (13:27): Right. They're always, it's like tithing. Like it's like, oh, it's how you should look at is like tithing. But then sometimes it's, it's like, well, whatever's leftover, that'll be mine. And it's like, no, no, pay yourself first. Because as women, we will, we will always make what our expenses are. We want to like, have that be the minimum and then start focusing more on the profit side. And if you're paying yourself, at least you're getting five grand a month or whatever. And it's funny how you will energetically match your expenses at the minimum. So you might as well pay yourself.
Speaker 3 (14:00): Right. so a lot. And I just did a rant in my Facebook group about this. I occasion I'm known to do a few rants, every
Speaker 2 (14:08): Single Hugh ran. So once I can imagine
Speaker 3 (14:12): Stocking I just did a rant on this about, you know, why women why we are the way we are in our entrepreneurial endeavors. And when it comes to pricing, we've come from a corporate career where many of us we're in the 50, 60, 70, $80,000 range in, in annual income, sometimes with a bonus, sometimes we were six-figure earners, but generally speaking, the women in my world at least are coming from that mid tier, or they left their career early enough when they just didn't hit that six figure mark. So the elusive six figure business owner seems like such a monumental step because they weren't able to do it or didn't, and there's a story around why they didn't get there in corporate. Now they're in their own business. So they feel like they're starting from scratch. They feel like they're down at the bottom.
Speaker 3 (15:03): They feel like they're the administrative assistant, you know, sweeper in their own business, trying to do the mindset, work, trying to get to six figures. And it's just, it's too much. So the way I break it down, cause I know my people are like, spreadsheety they need to know the numbers. I'm not be like, like consider the possibility that you could make more, like I'm not going to do the mental yoga with you. I'm just like brass tacks. It here's what I've come up with to break it down. Cause you said minimum, which is a really critical word. I've discovered. I teach the entrepreneurial minimum wage. The entrepreneurial minimum wage is $120,000 annually. It's not six figures. Figures is not a number.
Speaker 2 (15:46): Yeah. And six figures is not like, doesn't make you much profit, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:52): Well that's even, that's even a whole other, you know, level two conversation. I'm just saying like, when people say they want to make six figures, I'm like, that's not a number. We have a sales target. That's not literally a number I want to make a lot. Right? Entrepreneurial minimum wage is not six figures. It's not a hundred thousand. It's $120,000 a year. Right. And that's easy math. That's $10,000 a month. Right? But this is the whole concept that I teach in the invisible business model. And the way you have to think of it is that you are not making $120,000. Your business revenue is creating that. Then this is the extent of my, my financial advice. After that, we just, I focused on sales and shopping. I know my lane, but it's going to be the extent of my financial advice. Hundred and $20,000 is the entrepreneurial minimum wage. That's the umbrella number you need to break, bring in where clients can and people can wrap their brain around it energetically so that it's not a monumental number is now you have to break it into three buckets. This is the three bucket principle I
Speaker 2 (16:58): Remember for this conversation. We were at a coffee shop in New York. We totally chatted about this. Yes,
Speaker 3 (17:03): Exactly. The three bucket principle, one bucket is your income. That's an entire bucket. A second bucket is your operating expenses, right? That's where like the GoDaddy comes from. That's where your acuity comes from. That's where all the
Speaker 2 (17:17): Networks are code. Should I please hire a coach if you're struggling and don't know where you're doing, your coach, it's an expense. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:25): This pays for that. The business needs pays for that. And then that third bucket is your profit bucket. You are not always going to have steady, consistent client flow coming in. So you need to have money in that profit bucket to pay the other two buckets when they dry up. That is your entrepreneurial minimum wage period. Yeah. Anything less than that little survival, it's a part-time job. You're killing yourself for not making enough. And you've got to get there, right? That doesn't happen overnight. But that's the, that's the entrepreneurial minimum wage. And that's, that's the math behind why
Speaker 2 (18:02): 10,000 a month. Like we can conceptualize that. And I even would stretch to say the third bucket, the profit, you know? Yes. It can be to fill in the other buckets when you need it, but it's also guess what would you like to contribute to a self-directed IRA? Would you like to actually, you know, we don't get those 401ks anymore since we're not working, let's save and like take some like, you know, put some stuff away and you know, have it be tax-free and you know, work with their financial advisor on all of that, you know? Cause I know come December, boom, like a big chunk comes out of my account because that's what we do as a family. We've decided Tara's businesses this, and then at the end of the year, it, I pay out into all the whatever funds my financial guy tells me to do so that we can shelter some of that, you know, for the future, love
Speaker 3 (18:52): That women have those receptivity. So saying 10,000 a month, that's a trigger number for a lot of women. It seems astronomical. Yeah. That's where I phrase it around to be entrepreneurial, minimum wage. I can't change your brain. I can't, I'm not that person. I'm not the mindset coach. I know my lane. Right. I can teach some concepts and talk about some things. But at the end of the day, like it's deep. Why we are the way society has never allowed us to have money. Wage gap is a real thing. Women were only allowed to get business loans without a man signature since 1988. So like it's deep, it's systemic. It's cultural. It's rotated. Yes. It's a lot, a lot. So what I can do is I can talk to w w WTF, what's the function of this information? What do I do with this? Well, I know you're going to have a problem with receptivity.
Speaker 3 (19:43): I know you're going to have a problem with making too much money because of all the things you said before, who do I think I am the, tribe's gonna say, I'm not, you know, blob out, you know, all that kind of stuff. So if we chunk it down into the three buckets, love your idea. And this is who you are thinking, got to say, you've got to put things aside and think about the future. I'm talking to the woman that is like, I thought I had to make like 50,000 a year in my business and now her head is exploding. And she's like, right now, this is your bare bone minimum. Like get you from your regular survival. Kind of always just enough to get by, into thrive. That is from ice cold water into hot or the other way or to the system. And you will, self-sabotage what I can do is I can get you from survival energy on a W2 to surviving and sustaining as an entrepreneur there. I want to send set you free. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:46): Yeah. Catch and release, baby, go do your thing. Go. So
Speaker 3 (20:50): Go do the scaling work. Now go do all the bigger stuff, but you can't get to the seven figures, which again, number you can't get there. If you can't sustain the entrepreneurial minimum wage. And that's right. I have learned over the past 20 years, 10 years specifically, I know one thing,
Speaker 2 (21:11): This little bucket here, that's it? Yeah. Well, and it's one thing, you know, whenever I get people who are, I call them corporate owners. So they came from the corporate world or have their corporate job, but they're starting their little side hustle and want to make that transition and stuff like that. And it's like, they, the first thing I start with is, okay, well what's, how much do you need to make? Or like, what is, what does this look like? What's your, what's your revenue goal? Very specific, not 600 years. Right. And it's well, you know, I make 75,000 and my job as an analyst, so I just need to replace that. And I'm like, Hm, okay. So let's talk in terms of salary versus, you know, you're operating. And then these crazy things called taxes, which, you know, takes 20 to 30% right off the top, you know?
Speaker 2 (21:56): So when you're thinking about your, your offers and what you sell and, you know, get nervous about your pricing or whatever, I mean, don't forget to include that because that's a real thing that, you know sometimes when I've done a breakdown and I'm getting ready to launch my, by the time this airs I'll have launched it, but like my lowest priced program ever, even before, when I was a coach 10 years ago, like the lowest thing, and it's, I'm nervous about it. Cause I've always been fairly high end when it comes to my clients and, you know, offers like 18,000 a year to work with me, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I'm doing, so I'm having to like, like when, when I have my sales conversations, people like 300 a month for a year, I'm like, yeah, that are painful for 3000, you know?
Speaker 2 (22:47): And it's like, oh, I don't, I gotta think if I can and I'm going, this is a steal. Right? Like, do you know? But so I'm having to like, you know, shift my own, put myself back in that place 10 years ago. But coming out of the gate, I bought, my first coach was 25,000 a year. Like, and it was a horrible, not so great experience. But it was a great lessons learned, right? Like all the money you can spend away. So now I know what not to do, but you know, so I didn't have that issue in investing in myself. I didn't see it as I'm taking $25,000 from the Bowman family, you know? So we can't go on that Walt Disney vacation and get the new car. And no, I knew it was a business investment in myself. So I wish more women would come to the table like that.
Speaker 2 (23:32): It's not a choice of, should I buy that new car and have that car payment or hire Tara or hire Liz? I do not want that energy. So like, if people have to make that choice, don't choose me because I don't want that. You know, so, but I had to get really clear with that, you know, 10 years ago. So cool. So let's talk about the difference between the online space, which is like really, really hot. Like I do a lot of podcast episodes with guests that are experts in the online world, I, myself, and I know you're more quote unquote, we'll call it old school when it comes in terms of business I've done a ton of live events. I know you're like an in-person cheek to cheek type of speaker and whatnot as well. And you know, then the quarantine happened and it was like, okay, well now I have to like get into this online world a bit. Like, what do you see on the difference between selling online versus let's have a conversation it's
Speaker 3 (24:30): Crazy because I, what everyone's doing now, resorting to the phone is what I've been teaching, right?
Speaker 2 (24:39): Yes. It all works. It all works. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:42): About the online space. There's no right or wrong. Right. It's just as about what I teach people, how to have this, you know, invisible business model of this boutique business. Like, and I love that you said old school because the visual, I give my students to know if they're in the right places, think of it. Like it's the eighties. What would you do to start your consultancy or your coaching practice in the eighties, you get a small little store, not on main street, but like close to it. Cause it would be a little bit cheaper, but still high traffic ish. You set up a desk in the back, you'd hire an assistant in the front and she would have the phone book. You'd have the phone book, you'd go out and pound the pavement. You'd introduce yourself to people like hundred percent old school style.
Speaker 3 (25:17): You would be shaking hands to meet people, greet people, build relationships, and get them in your door to have the final conversation for them to start working with you officially that whole teach just behind the camera, on the phone, you know, sitting at your own desk on your bed, wherever makes you happy. Online space is brilliant. I, I, so many people are making so much money on there. It is what needs to happen in so many ways. And we're still at the infancy of the internet. It just lacks a personal component. I believe in a lot of ways. Nope. I'm going to take that back. It lacks, it lacks the connectivity because you can personalize. And I just heard somebody yelling at me in the back of my brain. Like it's really personalized and everything with the automations, I get ways to really make the correspondence personal, not arguing. What it lacks though, is that human connectivity, that voice to voice that actual human touch. And I think that was brought to the surface more than anything with COVID because we were so isolated that it just magnified how isolated we really are. And it just made the phone that much more inviting. Right. Whereas people were saying, oh, nobody uses the phone before, but millennials, they, you know, they got a bad rap, whatever, you know, gen Z, whatever, they got a bad rap, but people still do use the phone. People answer the phone. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:38): And text. I mean, there's, you know, there's the texting and I've found like, you know, even for me, it's like send an audio message via Instagram. I mean, people are like, like, yeah, you can like do audios or I do tons of loom videos, you know, that I'll send to people like, Hey, whatever. And you know, and even on this latest, the fast track accelerator, which is like a group coaching program, like people, you know, some people I would talk to them like, yeah, that's great. And I, in groups fine, but I won't drive it with you. And I'm like, oh boy, here we go. I said, no more. You know, I was going to not do as much private coaching, whatever. And you know, you want to scale. And then you're like, you know what? Yeah, fine. Like, I will do it, but it's just at this price.
Speaker 2 (27:22): And I'll only do X number a month. Because people do want that, that human element because every person feels that their situation is unique. Even though you like, you know, your lane, like, you know, Hey, this is where I'm at. You can plug and play, whether you're a boutique owner or you are a accountant. Right. And Liz can like, with her selling with service like that fits. But everyone is like, no, but I'm a little different because X and which is fine. Cause I'm the same way too. Like I would be like, no, no, like I want to feel special. You know, that's kind of my personality type anyway. And I will be able to get faster results if I know I have someone holding me accountable. So I had to like switch and add another layer of yeah, it's okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11): People do want that personal touch. And I feel like it's as sign of the times, right? Like it's whenever we have that mega shift. So back, was it 99 or year? 2000 that I remember, I created my first intra net page, like at a, I worked at a corporate company for like an internship. And that was like, for me, my first real experience with quote unquote, online, getting out information via a webpage to masses. And then it's like, so that's 20 years ago and it's like, over time we have just seen the online marketing flooded. Right. And I think I'm S I'm like you, like, I'm still kind of holding back like, Hey, old school works. Like I know like if I can just impact five people and they, 85% of my new leads are going to be referrals. So if I can just keep working that network, I don't need a list of a hundred thousand people in my email. Like I'm got a really good, decent small list. Right. So I've been really resistant to it. And now I'm like, okay, I feel like my next step is to move towards that. When I feel like a lot of people now that that's really trend, quote unquote, trendy and popular people are going to be moving the other way. So I like to always go the opposite. And I think I do that just to make my life a little more complicated than it needs to be, because it's more interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:29): Yep. I get it. But you touched on something really interesting. So the money stuff I heard come up again, kind of in the background of what you were talking about. So the up leveling, you know, and, and I've got the same, a very similar model. I've got sales school and then within, I have the mastery level where they work. Yeah. Here's where I always bring them back to a sales skills training, you know, Rob the conversations going on, they'll reference this training blahbity blocks. So how did I get comfortable with charging them more, to be in the mastery level? Because selling my time, I'm like, I would want to help him anyways. Like I have
Speaker 2 (29:58): My own issues. Right. We all do.
Speaker 3 (30:00): So where I came into it is that what they are buying is time compression. It's going faster. That's it? It's it. And you're naming is perfect. You know, accelerator fast track, all of this speed and stuff, because that's exactly, they're like, listen, I could sit back and learn it. I could read everything. I could take all the courses. I could fill out all the forms and the sheets and everything else and, and, and learn it and get it and do it on my own. Or I can have the resource center there. Yep. And you specifically tell me what page do I need to do next week? It's buying the time compression. Yeah. I'm a hundred percent okay. With that. Like I can be in full integrity with taking the higher dollar amount to help somebody speed things up in their business because it jazzes me. Totally cool. I get to ride you harder as I want it. I take your energy and I raise
Speaker 2 (30:55): You. That's good. I'll
Speaker 3 (30:57): Have a client who is the introverted introvert. Like I had to teach her how to have basic networking calls, like perverted introvert. Yeah. A lot of my students and I'm crazy.
Speaker 2 (31:09): Usually they're the best. And they have the biggest hearts and they want to serve. And I just
Speaker 3 (31:14): Sorry, me, but they love me. And I love that. So, so opposites of trap. Right? Always. So she's like the introverted introvert. And within 60 days of her being in the mastery level, she's booking podcasts, getting invited to speak at different conferences, you know, virtual, everything, virtual she's closed her first clients because I have more access to her. And I know that she wants to compress her results. I can ride her harder to me. The money conversation was like such a, no, nothing part of the conversation. Right. I know. Especially us being in the business lane. I know she's going to make that back within the first six months for sure. I always want to just kind of race the clock to see, can we get it back in five or four months? Three months. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:02): Yeah. No, that's cool. Yeah. I love that. Cause it's like, I'm, you know, I have the fast track accelerator and then I have the fast track premier, which is the accelerator with private with me. And we do your business map for you. I should call that like the fast track accelerator, the faster track premier, and then the fastest track mastermind. Like that would be funny. But that being said, it's very much people when they come in, they, they think they want, like, I'll just, I'll do the accelerator, this and that. And it goes fast. Like I believe being in the accelerator, you doing your own business map, you know, I'll review it with you. Whatever is like way faster than trying to go at it. Solo period. I have like in my gut, I know that to be true. Right. And then it's like, but then I get the women that come in and they're like, oh, I have to watch videos.
Speaker 2 (32:48): I have to fill out workbooks. And oh, and I'm like, well, you know, you can just switch to the premier track. We're, we'll do it for you. And then the coaching becomes around. Great. We have this map now let's get to work. Okay. And then I just had a lady that we luckily it was the smartest thing I did. I was hired as a business analyst that works on my team. So we co do her business map, present it. And I had a call with her today and she was like, you're not gonna believe this. I'm just, I'm just in love with my map. I just, I can't even do it. I don't know how you guys did that. Oh, it's so great. And she's like, I showed it to my, one of our, her consultants or her employees. And she, she started crying. I was like, oh, this is a new level because I've had it where women cry when you present the map.
Speaker 2 (33:29): Cause they're like, like it just legit Mises them so much to see the whole strategy, the five-year plan and all the things and the gaps filled in, but I've never had one employee cried. And so I was like, I mean, I don't. I said, I hope it was for good. She's like, oh my gosh. Yes. And then once you see that, then we can look at it and say, okay, what processes are you missing? What's she's like, I've never done a transition process for my clients before. And this is like brilliant. And I'm like, so, you know, we do all the step-by-steps and stuff they need to do. And I'm like, all right, now let's put this into action. It becomes an elevated conversation. Right. Which is beyond. So yes, I have no problem upselling people into premiere because I know it's, you've got to pay us to like, worry about your business at three in the morning. I mean, that's just the way it is
Speaker 3 (34:17): To me. It's not even an up sell. And it's like all, when I'm writing my copy, I'm I have an amazing new copywriter and we're like cleaning up the face of my program. Cause it's just the, the analogy I give is like, I send people there, they use it as an order form, but like if they come across it and they just keep driving by and I need them to stop and be interested. So I've hired the team to kind of help help me tweak it. And it's just really looking at the nuances of, of the language and, and how to communicate with her. I don't know. It just, it it's,
Speaker 2 (34:52): I mean, I think what you're saying, it's like all of this evolves over time, right? You may start with thinking you're going to serve one person. I'm sure. Liz thought the person she was going to be working with, whereas similar to her and like was like, let's go, let's do it. Yeah, no problem. You need to call 10 people. Okay. Done. And it's like, the reality is she knows she's attracting introverts because she's an extroverted, they're attracted to her. I'm very much a system step-by-step processor. I tend to attract similar. Like, and I know that because we've been doing this for 10 years. Yes. Do I get an outlier? Who's like a super like extroverted person, of course. Right. You know, but at the end of the day, they're attracted to you, like, because of your step-by-steps and how you do it. Cause they know they need a little bit more structure in their life. Right. So you find out and we just continue to evolve. And we've been at this long enough to be like, we're really clear on who we serve, who is attracted to us and who we want to work with. But that changes. And it's like, even like a business map, like yeah. That could be my job is to get you 98% there. But are you going to need to update it every quarter? Absolutely. Because guess what? It's like, it evolves like, and it should, I mean, it is like a fluid process running around.
Speaker 3 (36:09): I think that there's misconceptions around like the business planning and everything else, like where are we started talking about the masculine energy, if that there there's one thing in our brain where we think that it's it's, this is what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:23): Yeah. Right. And we think it's a business plan that we need to take to a bank to get a loan for the big usually guide to say yes or no, your, your idea is good enough. You don't have that anymore. Like how many of us women business owners actually have to get alone? Not very many. We know we can start businesses very affordably, but where do you want
Speaker 3 (36:44): To know a concept around who you want to help, what you want to do? And then you need to know what you're really focused on for the next 90 days. I do not. I know you've got the five-year plan and everything. I'm stepping into your lane, but with my people, I'm just like, all we need to focus on are the next 90 days right now. Like the big thing. Cause I'm also with the itty bitty baby stage of working with people to look out 90 days because COVID like, obviously the world can change like that. We've all exposed. Even before that. And, and other things are going to come up now anyway, it's really, when you plan in the weeds too far ahead, prematurely, it will impact your ability to go into action now because you're already thinking the analogy I give is like, you're on the east coast, Connecticut. And you know, you want to get to California, but the reason why it's taken you six months to leave your house is because you're trying to figure out what driveway you're going to park. And in California, you don't even know what road you're going to take to get there. Like
Speaker 2 (37:44): You just need to get out of your neighborhood right
Speaker 3 (37:47): On the highway. Stop thinking about like what driveway you're gonna park in. Are you going to parallel park
Speaker 2 (37:51): Backwards? If your car is going to break down in the middle of the desert and it's like, well, quit worrying about all the, what ifs and get into action. Because guess what? Universal loves action.
Speaker 3 (38:00): Clarity comes through conversation. Confusion comes from thought, but, and, and figure it out and figure it out. So, you know, so, so back to sales, it's all of these things, having these pieces in place, women are not going to have a dinner party and invite people if they don't know what's on the menu. Right? So it's the same thing in our business. We have to have some idea of what we're going to serve and what that kind of looks like so that we can get excited about coming to the party, right. And upside to that, or, or the, the, you know, that's the soft currency side. And then the hard side is what's the dollar amount. And then what's the math around it. So that I don't feel like I'm doing outreach for the rest of my life. I actually have a number to work against that says, I actually made all the sales calls I had to make. I did all the outreach I had to make this week. I'm on target and I'm tired. I am the afternoon off because I do what I had to do or you know what I did the things I have to do to get me to the minimum. I did all the minimum things to get me to that minimum wage. I'm feeling like a rockstar right now. So I'm going to double down. I'm going to keep going, but it
Speaker 2 (39:14): Bruises, fear. Yes. I love that. It's so it is a choice. And what do we want more than anything in our business freedom. Like, that's why we did this in the first place. And so if we see all those little milestones along the way, it's like breathe. I mean, I just had a coaching call with a client today. Who's like, you know, I said, she's get rebranding personality, brand type of stuff. And like moving from company to individual and her website, like framework is all put together and talk, you know, that whole like branding part. And I said, okay, so when is your website going to be done? And she's like, I want it to be done by January 1st. You know, I love the January 1st arbitrary. Like everything changes in 20, you know, in the new year. Right. So I said, okay. I said, so January, all right.
Speaker 2 (40:01): And I said, well, what you have to do it doesn't take two to three months. Right. So let's, let's think about that. And I said, I would push you to have it done by December 1st. Why? Because I want you to take time off at the holidays and enjoy your family. And just I've been, I want that so much. I want that. And I was like, okay, so declare it. So December 15th, I said, I have, for 10 years, December 15th is always my last day of work for the year. My clients know it. And then I'm into Christmas mode and all the things I'm usually traveling back to Illinois and that's it. And then I come back like January 6th, then get back to work. But if you like schedule your life around it and decide, I mean, we're running businesses, don't we want to have that for you home. Right. So huge. We've got to prioritize around the most important things
Speaker 3 (40:51): Because when, when we are going into business with this a serial concept, and we're not rooting things in numbers, says the soft currency over deliver over here, I've done all this because I had to protect myself from the working too hard, because I thought I had to, whatever. Yeah. Found it all in numbers. Then you're making decisions from a more empowered place when you're making totally empowered place. And, and fact based logical place when you're making decisions from that place, it empowers you how you're showing up. You start to sit up a little bit straight, straight, or you start to just show up the energy that we're sort of searching for us where all the mindset work comes out of as a result of having the structure to know the activities are you need to do to move the needle. Yep. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:39): Like the biggest game. Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (41:41): I was just, when you know exactly your number to do the outreach, because you, you have an idea of what the conversion is to the next step and the idea of what the conversion is. You've reverse engineered everything. When you know what those numbers are. You, we just have to do that right out of it, more on how are we engaging in the conversations? How are we showing up? Instead of everyone thinking this has to be the client, this has to be, this has to be the one we can be better and be best versions of ourselves. When we give ourselves the gift of operating the business from the numbers.
Speaker 2 (42:21): Absolutely. Absolutely. And people are always like, well, why would you, I don't work for the money. Guess what? I don't work for the money. I, I don't like, I like money. I like Chanel, broaches. I like the things, whatever. It's not an issue. It's more, it's not what it, what hops out of bed every day. And, but some people absolutely, they only, they work for the money and that's their thing. And which is totally fine. I like to lead with the money as a metric because it's easy to measure. And the, for me, like I, when I was in the corporate world, I was good at sales. I was going to upselling. Once I was in a company, it was like, I could take, you know, something that was like a $200,000 account and make it a million pretty easily. And, but so, but it was never, my struggle was, oh, I never had to generate the leads.
Speaker 2 (43:04): Like I could upsell. And then when I went into entrepreneurship, it was like, oh, I never learned that. Okay. I need to learn sales. Okay. Whatever. And then it became, oh my gosh. If they say no to me, then they must not like me. So my whole people pleasing, I still am. I'm a people pleaser. And I'm still working on that. But like, because you can see Liz and I are not perfect ourselves. Where's the say it. So like the people pleaser ran in, you know, and then the emotions and the feelings, even though people thought I was like a robot with the way my brain works and whatever, it was like, I still have feelings. They were just very suppressed and hidden like member. I don't know if you remember back in the day where it was like, you don't, people are hugging me, like, I'd go to a conference and women hug.
Speaker 2 (43:47): I'm like, we're going to get sued for sexual harassment, like what is going on and all this hugging and crying. So anyway, I came a long way. I know, you know, I came from a very masculine business world. And anyway, so what I found is having a sales system when I had a system. And when I say system 99% of the time, if I'm talking to a woman entrepreneur, or am I say, Hey so how do you track your sales? And in my head they never, like, I have a notebook, I have a CRM, I use a spreadsheet. It's like, okay. So step one is, you've got to be able to track where people are in the stages of sales. And once I knew that in the five stages, and then it became like, oh, it's a system. And I am not emotionally attached to the outcome instead, it's, you're either I need to connect with you.
Speaker 2 (44:39): Or I sent you a proposal and I need to follow up. And if you're a no, that's okay, I just cut and paste you and I'll move you to a nurture list. Like it just becomes, take the emotion out of sales. And that was the game changer for me to get to six figures that a hundred thousand dollars like that, which wasn't even my minimum. Cause I, you know what you make in the corporate world, you have to like triple it. So yeah, it was just one of those things that like, okay, have a system take the emotion out of it. And that was my game changer when we did. And then it just came. It's not that, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (45:11): Yeah. When we don't have the numbers to guide us along the steps, every decision, right? We want to be emotional. That's why we're in the businesses. We're in. We want to connect with people. We want to help them. So there is a really strong personal component to what we're doing, but when we're not rooted in the numbers, everything becomes, that has to be the one, right? The number one rule of dating is, you know, day three, keep the focus on me, right? So that you're not ever attached to any one thing. It's the same thing in sales and it's. And when you go into all of your business conversations, adopting the mindset early and often that they're already a client, you can show up through the entire conversation process in total service, energy, loving on them, getting to know them, giving them whatever it is that they need.
Speaker 3 (46:02): Right. Saying, here's my resource, you know, oh, I did a training on this. Let me flip that to you. I've got a checklist somewhere floating around. That was an opt in a while ago. Let me send that. I think that could really help you, like getting them ready to work with you because not everyone that comes to your world is ready to work with you now. So you have to do some kind of, let me make sure that they understand my philosophy. Let me make sure that they're getting the things. Are they implementing? Are they doing the things? And coming back to me like, that's that, there's somebody in my world, in my tribe doing all of that. We're not attached to forcing them through the funnel faster. There's no attachment to sales. They're already a client. So then the question just becomes, when are they ready to make the hard currency commitment to come into the big pond?
Speaker 3 (46:45): That's it? There's no sales energy there. That's not yeah. 100% service. They're already a client from the time they come in your world. It's just, are you going to help them with the stuff that's on the outside of the business or on the inside of the business to help them decide when that's going to be. Sometimes we have to say, you know what? You need to come into the pond enough. We're going in the pond and get in. Sometimes we have to do that. And sometimes we're like, you're doing great go. I've got another training on the YouTube channel. Go listen to that one. And then I come into play in the pond now. Okay. I don't
Speaker 2 (47:20): Know if you're ready yet. Yeah, that's true. I mean,
Speaker 3 (47:23): I you're good. I mean, you're like, I don't, you're good, but I want to, I'm like, Hey.
Speaker 2 (47:32): Yeah. Well, because one of these things too, that's very like if I don't know if someone, cause I'm more, I am more tied to my client's transformation and the success stories. And I that's what rise like gets me super jazzed is like, when I see their results and like they're not the same woman and blah, blah, blah. Like the money is just like, okay, like that's just the exchange of energy and you committing to yourself. Right. And yeah. So it just, I lost my train of thought, but this just becomes one of these things. It's like no big deal. Right. And I had to get that way with, and I'm still working on it. And hopefully by the time this airs I'll be a pro at it, but it's like, you know when it's like, well how much is it to work with you? And I say, you know, whatever the offer is, say it's $3,000. And I just need to say my friends, like all you do, Tara is how much is it? $3,000. And then you just take a drink of water and shut up and let them work through their own crap. And then my new lens, I see it through is like, that is your opportunity to just start coaching them immediately in the sales process. Let them sit in their uncomfortableness. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:39): Oh, okay. In my Facebook group was talking about the first coaching call that you have with your client. And I shifted, everyone's thinking, but the first coaching call you have with your client, because you adopt the mindset early and often that they're already a client. So there's that shift, right? So everyone in your world is already a client. And then the first coaching call that you have with them is that sales call where you're coaching them through the biggest objection that they will ever have, which is the commitment to doing the work, to become the next version of themselves. That is the first time everything else after this just logistics.
Speaker 2 (49:15): Yeah, totally. Oh my gosh. So good. And I know we're over time, but this was so fantastic. Liz, thank you so so much. Please let our,
Speaker 3 (49:26): To what I feel like we got to play and hang out today, you got to play and hang
Speaker 2 (49:30): Out so fun. Even if it's virtually, we need to go back to New York. Yeah. so tell everyone, how can they learn more about you?
Speaker 3 (49:38): Well, I think, I think based on the conversation we had if they go to invisible business model.com, I think that will give them some more insights because it's, they're resonating with the conversation that kind of breaks down the math a little bit more about this invisible business model that I'm talking about with the entrepreneurial minimum wage blahbity blah. So I think that's like that, that makes the most sense is for people to check out that training. If this is resonating
Speaker 2 (50:02): Perfect invisible business model.com and that's how you can get in touch with Liz Dederer and if you want to get some help and support around sales, she's the go-to gal for that. So. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. And let's catch up soon and I just so appreciate you. Yes.
Speaker 1 (50:20): Perfect. Take care. And there you have it. Another jam packed episode of the fast track woman podcast, don't forget to visit terrible men.com where you can get more business tips and strategies learn how we can work together to accelerate your business success or access this podcast. Episode show notes with a full transcript and links to resources mentioned today. And if you enjoyed this podcast, I invite you to leave a review so that we can help serve more women business owners to like you until next time here's to owning your time and valuing your work.
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